SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, we don't know if the tape is accurate.  We're still examining it, giving it the most intense, technical analysis you might imagine to make sure we know who, exactly, is on the tape before we attribute to Usama bin Laden.  But whoever did make the tape shows that we are still in a threatening environment.  There are still people out there who are planning terrorist attacks, not only against the United States, but a number of other countries mentioned in this particular tape.

And we always knew that this would be a long and difficult campaign and we will pursue it to the end, but it doesn't mean that you can overlook other dangers in other parts of the world. The world's too complicated to do that, too complex for that. And so we will continue to pursue al-Qaida and we will follow every trail that we can find that takes us to the target that we are after and at the same time, we will deal with other problems that exist on the world's stage, such as Iraq. And I think we have shown that we can do two things at once.

I think the results that came out of the UN last week with UN Resolution 1441 certainly demonstrate that. 

MR. LEYNE:  Well, on Resolution 1441, Iraq has requested, has demanded, has said it will now comply with the resolution.  What's your response to that?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, they had no choice.  The international community spoke last Friday on Resolution 1441 and one of the first requirements they put before Iraq was to acknowledge, accept this resolution.  And notwithstanding all of the usual boilerplate language that was in the long Iraq letter, Iraq did what it was required to do under the resolution.

MR. LEYNE:  Okay, the next thing it is required to do under the resolution is to provide a declaration, a 30-day declaration.  Who decides whether there are omissions or false statements in that declaration?

SECRETARY POWELL:  We'll have to see what the declaration looks like when it comes in.  And I think we know enough, and I think the inspection teams, UNMOVIC and IAEA, and frankly, other members of the Security Council, know enough with respect to what Iraq has done in the past and the baselines that existed in 1998 as to their holdings, and the work that has been done over the last 12 years to make a judgment as to whether the declaration they submit bears some relationship to the truth and the facts as I think we understand them. 

MR. LEYNE:  But can you, the United States, jump in, yourselves, and just say, we believe there are omissions, it is a material breach, the whole consequences therefore follow?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, as you know, the way the resolution is structured, if the declaration is false and if there are efforts to deny the inspectors the access that they need, then that constitutes, in and of itself, as a matter of fact, a material breach.  It is not the United States that declares it, it stands on its own.  Somebody will have to make a judgment as to whether it's accurate or not.

MR. LEYNE:  Well, exactly.  Who makes that judgment? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  There are lots of ways to do that.  Dr. Blix could make a judgment.  We could make a judgment.  Any member of the Council can look at this and say this just can't be, and then refer it to the Security Council for its assessment, which is what's called for in that part of the resolution. 

MR. LEYNE:  By calling for the resolution, as soon as there is--somebody decides--and it's not clear who--decides there's an omission, it is therefore automatically in material breach? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  Joining many other material breaches, past and current.

MR. LEYNE:  But it is a new one following the resolution?

SECRETARY POWELL:  It is a new one following the resolution, joining past ones and present ones.  It is not as if there is no material breach now.  There is material breach now.

MR. LEYNE:  Which then leads the Security Council to meet with the possibility, of course, of all those consequences that would follow. That sounds an awful lot like the automaticity you said isn't in the resolution. 

SECRETARY POWELL:  Not at all.  I don't think it is. It says that if there is this failure in providing an accurate declaration and if they continue to frustrate the inspectors, then it gets referred to the Council for its assessment as to whether or not serious consequences could follow, or for whatever the Council might choose to do. 

And at the same time, the United States is free, as is any other member of the Security Council, to make its own independent judgment as to whether or not it may wish to act in concert with likeminded nations. But there is no automaticity. It isn't as if one flips a switch and a light goes on. Judgments will be made, considerations will be taken, and there will be a great deal of discussion between the members of the Security Council as we review that particular material breach. 

But the United States wants to work with members of the Security Council. It's better if we act collectively. But if there's not the collective will to act, then the United States certainly, as does any other member of the Security Council, retains its ability to act in self-defense. 

MR. LEYNE:  Going on beyond this declaration--say we get past that stage and the inspections are in progress--the sort of problems you're going to encounter probably won't be black and white. It will be a very gray area. And Iraq might say, "We'd like to let you in this building but we've lost the key."  You know, "Somebody's car broke down on their way."

SECRETARY POWELL:  That kind of--that isn't a gray area. That's black and white.  They're not letting us in the building. 

MR. LEYNE:  But they'll find gray areas.

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, they can try to find gray areas.  But if we see that the inspectors are just running into one gray area after another, or even the first gray area, that's a clear indication that Iraq does not intend to cooperate. And the instructions from the Council, I think, are rather clear. We expect cooperation. And we have had many conversations with Dr. Blix and with Dr. El Baradei, and they have made the same point. They don't want to be part of a sham. They don't want to be part of a shell game where we're finding, you know, where is the quarter under the walnut, or however you play the game. 

What they want to know is: Will they be put in a position where they can do their job?  Will there be cooperation?  And if Iraq keeps painting everything in gray, it won't work, and we expect that UNMOVIC and IAEA will report that to the Council for the action called for in the resolution. 

MR. LEYNE:  The point is that Iraq is going to try and do something that is not clear in that way, and you're going to have other members of the Council, quite possibly, saying it was an honest mistake, they forget about an appointment, somebody was sick. So who decides that?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, maybe we will, Jon, and maybe we won't.  Maybe Iraq has to understand that this is not like 1999 when the Council did not speak with a single, clear voice and you had three abstentions among the Permanent Members of the Security Council the last effort at an inspection regime. 

This time, all 15 have spoken clearly, with a much tougher resolution, and have made clear that we are expecting Iraqi cooperation; and if there's not Iraqi cooperation, the inspectors cannot do their job and the inspectors are expected to report that to the Security Council; the Security Council will assess the seriousness of this, and serious consequences, as the United Nations has said in the past, is a possibility. 

It's clear. It's unambiguous. Yes, judgments will be made. Yes, there will be debate.  But I think Iraq would be making a very great mistake if they think there are fissures within the Security Council of the kind they have exploited in the past. This time, there are none. We are all together on this. Every nation is saying the same thing to Iraq:  cooperate, comply, disarm; you will be disarmed one way or the other.

MR. LEYNE:  If you get to that point where the Council has agreed there's a material breach, or there is some argument, at least, within the Council, would you press forward, then, for a second resolution, as I think you seemed to intimate over the weekend?

SECRETARY POWELL:  What I've intimated is that the Council has the ability to do whatever it wishes once a situation has been reported to it that would constitute a new material breach. I don't know whether the Council will just want to debate it for a long period of time or whether they want to move immediately to another resolution, a new resolution. That's for the Council to decide. 

MR. LEYNE:  But would you press for one?

SECRETARY POWELL:  Well, I can't tell you what we would press for in the absence of what it is, why we're pressing for something. 

But clearly, if it was the reality that Iraq was not cooperating, that they did not intend to disarm, that they were once again thwarting the will of the international community, that they wanted to treat this 17th resolution like they have treated all previous 16 resolutions, then you can bet we will be pressing for the United Nations, through the Security Council, to take appropriate action in accordance with this resolution. The whole purpose of this resolution, the guts of this resolution, was that there would be consequences for further misbehavior. That's what makes this resolution different.

So to have this misbehavior and to see it, and see this violation, and knowing that this individual has said I don't care what the international community thinks, I don't care what the Arab League thinks, I don't care what the Security Council thinks, I'm going to continue to violate international law, then of course we'll be pressing for action on the part of the Security Council. 

MR. LEYNE:  What happens in the other scenario, the other half of the scenario, where Saddam Hussein decides completely to comply with the UN's demands, with Resolution 1441? Can you say for sure there would not be a war?

SECRETARY POWELL:  We will have to wait and see whether any such level of compliance is reached. But the President has made it clear from the very beginning that he wants to solve this peacefully. But solving it means disarmament. And if you have had disarmament to the satisfaction of the Security Council, then we have had disarmament to the satisfaction of the Security Council; and if that is also to the satisfaction of the United States, our security council, then we have found the peaceful solution the President said he is looking for.

MR. LEYNE:  So Saddam Hussein stays in power?

SECRETARY POWELL:  We are looking for disarmament. We still think that the Iraqi people would be better off with a new leader, and I hope they will come to their senses in due course that a better life awaits all the people of Iraq without Saddam Hussein. 

Regime change was and still is our policy because we have had the greatest doubts as to whether or not he'll ever comply. He didn't comply previously. He caused circumstances to exist which caused the withdrawal of the inspectors in 1998. That's why regime change became our policy, because it did not seem he would obey the international community, and the only way you could get disarmament was through regime change. And that remains our policy.

It's up to him to demonstrate that the regime has changed and perhaps we should look at it in a different light. But right now the burden is on him, not on the United States, not on the Security Council. The burden is on him to obey international law, get rid of weapons of mass destruction. 

And let us not lose sight of the other UN resolutions that he has violated with respect to human rights, with respect to the return of prisoners, with respect to a lot of other things that he is responsible for. And we just can't walk away from those when disarmament occurs, if it occurs. So the burden is on him. If anybody is guilty in this matter, it is Saddam Hussein, not the United States, not the international community.

MR. LEYNE:  Just briefly, after all that's been said about you and your position with the administration over the summer, did you realize the smallest of wry smiles after that resolution was passed unanimously? 

SECRETARY POWELL:  Obviously, I was very pleased. Lots of things have been said about me in the course of the summer and in the course of the past 22 months.  But that's part of the price of being in public life in my position.

The only thing I'm interested in is doing the best job I can as Secretary of State in representing the American people, serving the President of the United States in the conduct of foreign policy. And commentary plus or minus, good or bad, just comes with the job, and I've been around this town a long time and I know how to work my way through controversy and comment.

MR. LEYNE:  Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.

SECRETARY POWELL:  Thank you, Jon.